Staying Alive S02E02: The Reality of Freelancing with Nora Loreto
RUNNING TIME 
24:19
SPEAKERS
Nora Loreto, Winston Sih


Winston Sih  00:04
Lisa LaFlamme, Lloyd Robertson, Peter Mansbridge. Just some of the legendary Canadian broadcasters who have cut their teeth and worked their way to the top of their respective networks for decades. They've each had their own sunsets into a Hall of Fame of sorts, one of a select few who have had the tremendous careers they've built. Ask almost anyone today and they'll tell you those careers are rare. Few and far, between the days of working at the same newsroom to retirement are gone. Now shift to the way of how many are working today. For years, it has been the way for many writers, we are seeing a marked move by many television and radio journalists, like myself, become freelance entrepreneurs. Now it's a hustle, a path that requires one to know a bit of everything from branding, marketing, pitching, producing, content creation, editing, distribution, and business strategy. The list is long. You are your own company. But how do you compete in today's market where there are more freelancers than ever before? I'm Winston Sih. It's all about business of freelance on this episode of Staying Alive. 


It's the reality for the majority of journalists today. Most will end up working for themselves and pitching their work, their value to an external newsroom. But how do you grow your presence in Canada as a freelancer? Sustain yourself while providing the important local information our communities deserve? And of course, stay competitive in today's markets? Joining me today is Nora Loreto, a Quebec-based president with the Canadian Freelance Union, is the author of the Spin Doctors, which is a book about how politicians and journalists reacted to COVID-19, and of course, is the editor of the Canadian Association of Labour Media. She's also a freelance writer and a co-host of the Sandy and Nora podcast. Nora, welcome to the show.


Nora Loreto  02:17
Hey, thanks for having me.


Winston Sih  02:19
So since you're a freelancer, and I'm a freelancer, I'd love to start by laying out the reality of freelancing today. I would argue that freelancing 10 years ago is very different from freelancing today. The freelance gig, of course, has changed over the years. Are we indeed seeing more freelance journalists in the market?


Nora Loreto  02:40
Yeah, we definitely are seeing more people writing for freelance, certainly a decade ago, mastheads were larger and longer in physical copies of magazines and newspapers, many of which have disappeared. And so, before there would be a lot more people on staff, people on salary to fill the pages of Chatelaine or Maclean's or whatever. Today, not only are there fewer journalists working in these full time, or even official part time positions, but then you've got this added difficulty of having a lot of people out there doing the freelance thing. So, you know, to put this into really concrete terms, you write a feature for a magazine like Chatelaine, you're not going to be able to go back to them two months later and say, “Hey, you want me to do another feature?" Because there's like a whole bunch of other people who want or need or would love to have that opportunity. And so there's a question of scarcity. And that scarcity does drive how individuals interact with freelancing. But then also like what your career looks like, generally. You might have the best scoop. But if it lands at a time, that's not good for the production cycle of a magazine like Maclean's and they don't have the staff to handle stuff outside of production time, where are you going to take that scoop?


Winston Sih  03:59
And publications like Chatelainee, there is an important mandate to increase representation, diversity, and equity. Just by virtue of that, we're seeing more voices, which is a great thing for the overall market. But that means one freelance writer might not be getting their byline in the same publication as many times as you mentioned earlier.


Nora Loreto  04:22
Well, yeah, because there's just so many people. And so if you're trying to get a diverse swath of experiences, there's just scarcity. There's limited space for it, maybe you've got five amazing stories that you want to tell, you're not likely going to be able to tell all of those five stories, certainly not in the same publication unless you get like a series or you're lucky or something. And if we do talk about broadcasting, there's an over reliance of freelancers within mainstream newsrooms. And at the same time, a lot of people are realizing that their only opportunity if they want a steady gig that they can control is to do things themselves and to become their own broadcasters. That's what I do. And I love it. But it's not for everybody. Like, it really, really sucks. And it doesn't pay, it doesn't pay enough. And if it does pay, like you've probably hustled for many, many, many years trying to grind something out. It's not a realistic job prospect for most people.


Winston Sih  05:17
My natural instinct when we talk about freelancing and freelance journalism, is writing. But freelance journalists also do succeed in the television and radio industry, but they have to be creative, because in broadcasting, there is a specialized on-camera or broadcasting skill set that is unique to those industries. But those newsrooms also are staffed with full timers and salaried employees. And these networks rely on network correspondence as well. So it's a little bit harder to penetrate, and to have those connections within those networks. In your line of work, succeeding in those industries, does that take a little bit more work to succeed within those legacy networks?


Nora Loreto  06:07
Well, I think you have to be willing to put up with a lot of garbage, which is what makes it so unfair. There's a huge psychological impact on you. When you're afraid of every way that you frame a story, every person that you bring into a story, will they ever come around and say, "Oh, they completely butchered the way that I was representing the story." And then could that lead to the end of your freelance career? You know, it's like precarious. And the thing about freelancers who look like they are full time or part time staff, is that the corporation is able to not have to pay payroll deductions, or maybe there is more flexibility, quote, unquote, with firing someone or laying them off for periods of time when there is less work or whatever, and then calling them back on the Christmas days, or the summer holidays, or whatever. That might make economic sense from the perspective of the owners. But that's really, really, really hard, it's a really difficult way to live. And then worse than that, these companies encourage you to be honest and real and who you are online, but you say the wrong thing and then all of a sudden, your career prospects just evaporate. They insist on authenticity and being honest. But the second that you're too honest, or you're too authentic, you might cross the line, and then find yourself not at all in the favour anymore of a certain corporation. You don't have many options, especially if you're if you're in a world like in broadcast journalism, because there aren't that many players, certainly in small towns or even small cities, that--to this country,


Winston Sih  07:36
And we know newsrooms have business codes of conduct. They have ethics and best practices. These are typically agreements that are held to full timers, full salaried and reporters. But it's almost like they're being extended to freelance journalists, but they don't necessarily know what these rules are. So are we setting them up for failure?


Nora Loreto  07:57
Some of the rules are just not reasonable. There's a lot of interpretation. There's a lot of intergenerational confusion. Things like notions of balance, notions of both side-ism, that has been the norm within journalism in this country for decades. There are emerging generations of journalists that have rejected that logic and have said that that logic doesn't make any sense. It's actually not journalistic. It marginalizes my identity, or different identities or whatever someone might say. You have to take a lot of abuse, sometimes. It's one thing to do with all of that, when you have full job security, I mean, it's still difficult. But if you don't have any of those things, if you're a freelancer, if your only thing is your reputation, then all of a sudden, you're kind of stuck in a really difficult spot where you have to take a lot of abuse, you don't have a lot of power, and if you do try and use that power, you might very quickly find yourself being laid off or just not called back again, when the winds of the management of the organization change. I mean, that happened with me. I had a column in the National Observer for a couple of years. And it was great, but the leadership changed and COVID happened. And they said, well, we don't have the money to pay you for your column. But you know, get back less than six months, maybe things have changed. But then I said, Okay, fine. Six months later, I'm back in touch. And then they say to me, “Well, we're actually taking a different editorial perspective right now. And we would like you to only write about the environment. Noo more columns about other politics,” and was like, Okay, fine. I'm not really an environmental columnist, but I like this column. I love the National Observer. So okay, fine. And so talking through some topics, then it became very clear that that's not what they mean. And then “Nora, it's been a really great run. It's been a couple of years. Thanks so much for your work.” And then within like six weeks, they hire a new columnist who's got a completely different political perspective than I do, and who is not writing environmental column. These things happen really easily, especially when there's a change among the people who have the decision making power and as a freelancer, you have very little control or ability to change things. There are forces making these decisions that you don't even see and that you have no control over.


Winston Sih  10:03
So would you say that there's a lack of transparency between editors and producers of organizations and the freelancers and maybe that builds on a push and pull almost in terms of how the relationship can progress?


Nora Loreto  10:18
All of this stuff is very different person to person. And so there are editors who are very transparent, who are very honest, their editors in chief who are very honest and transparent. I've had some editors in chief say, you know, bill me now because you're not gonna get paid for five months to do this right away. And then you've got people who are just not as good at communicating who might be in the middle of stuff that you don't understand. I was just joking about this on Twitter last week, you know, I'm writing a piece right now with an American magazine with an editor who I don't know at all. When you submit that first draft, like you have no idea if they're gonna go, “oh, wow, this is excellent.” Or “Holy crow, you totally missed the point.” It's a crapshoot. Every time I've tried to get something published with Maclean's in the last six months, because there's been massive changes there, it's like, “oh, we're just doing news now. So you know, great idea, but we'll have to pass.” And so like, I'm always prepared for that. And then you go to, like, you know, the Walrus, and “oh, my goodness, we're overloaded, like, maybe get back to us in a month and see if it's still a possibility.” It's very stressful. And every publication has different approaches to this stuff, and you have to be really flexible, and ready for anything.


Winston Sih  11:28
So the shift in direction for a newsroom, or a new editor can mean the beginning or the end of your career within a certain organization, at least for a time period. I also want to mention, because I often think about the luxuries of working for a traditional newsroom, I think of having the protection of a legal department, if you say something that could be seen as defamatory or better resources and access to go into communities to tell different stories, financial stability, union protection, even health benefits. These are some things that you've just mentioned, but how do freelancers figure their way around these things to maybe have access to legal protection, or even something simple, like health benefits?


Nora  12:14
Yeah, it's really hard. And this is where solidarity amongst freelancers is so important. Like, of course, there has to be some level of standards expected of these publications. And so it would be wonderful to see publications offering a health premium for any article written so that you get an extra percentage of the total cost that they assume that you would agree to, would be put into some sort of private health insurance plan that you might subscribe to already. That doesn't really exist. One thing we're working right now on in the freelance union is seeing if we can come up with a pension plan that you can opt into, and that you can pay annually, and that you can try and get language in your contracts to get a pension contribution made on your contracts that you have. And because freelance journalists don't tend to be full time freelance journalists sometimes to that other side work, you might have access to benefits that you don't have as a freelancer. But we are trying to figure out a way to get pension plan available. We hear often from people who are interested in stuff like libel insurance, and it's like, does it make sense for you to be carrying such a liability as libel insurance, whereou're paying every month into this? What are we talking about here? Like, what's the level of libel? Who are you taking on? What kind of articles are you writing? Are we talking about SLAPP lawsuits? Are we talking about nuisance suits? When you are starting out, it can feel overwhelmingly frightening. So sharing knowledge is really fundamentally important to make sure that the isolation that feeds a lot of these issues is broken. Because if we live in isolation from one another, we don't know what a standard rate for the Globe and Mail's freelance contributors might be. We don't know what the standard rates for CBC might be like. We share that with one another. And then we can know if we're getting played or if we're not getting the kind of contracts that we should be getting. The nice thing too is it's freelancers doing it for ourselves. So it's those of us who see these issues in our own daily work and know the stresses that everybody is under. And we can do what we can to find creative solutions to some of this stuff.


Winston Sih  14:14
Absolutely. And as a freelance broadcaster myself, I know people who will go into a network making $350 for an appearance and then others that will make 1,000 plus, and it's definitely commensurate of your experience, but there is quite a wide range and spectrum and having those conversations will just collectively keep that bar up for more people so that we're not lowering the value of the work that we do.


Nora Loreto  14:45
You know, if you do syndication, which is the morning or the afternoon shows that are local all across Canada and you're brought on as a journalist to do syndication on some topic that you have a lot of information on or whatever may be reported on it, if you don't mention at the start that You're doing this as a journalist, you won't get paid and just not mentioning that can lose you $500 to $700, depending on how many shows you do that morning. So it's really important that we share that kind of information. There's differences in rates that might come with experience. But there's also big differences, you know, in television versus radio. And that's not something that people realize either, so that a three minute television appearance might net $300. But you'll get a fraction of that if you're doing even half an hour of radio. here's a lot to learn and if you're just starting out, be willing to take on things that you can't afford to do, because you want the byline and you want to be affiliated with a media outlet. That's sadly part of how people try to get their foot in the door. I don't encourage it. I don't think you should work for free. But I understand why people do. The corporations need to be telling people upfront what is expected of them and what the payment is going to be. You have to assert yourself. And not everyone can. Not everyone has the time to do that. Not everyone has the skills to do that. Not everyone feels comfortable doing that. And it sucks that that's kind of like the prevailing status quo that we have to deal with in this country.


Winston Sih  16:07
The other issue that makes things more complex are also influencers and nice citizen journalists, because everyone has that voice on social media, you can publish almost anywhere. How do freelance journalists set themselves apart without just publishing in those Maclean's, or Chatelaines of Canada?


Nora Loreto  16:30
Oh, that is such a good question. I'm not someone that sees this in black and white. I think if we start to have an honest conversation about the differences between citizen journalism and let's say, professional journalists, we can see that there is overlap. Some of the best footage that we have from the Freedom Convoy, for example, came from citizen journalists, and that raw material is a kind of journalism for sure. I think that where we have gotten very confused about what is and what is not journalism, is that journalism is kind of coded as your professional relationship to a corporation. So you can be hired by CTV or Global, what you're doing all the time is journalism. Even if you were to pass this to someone and say, “Does this look like journalism?” It's like, No, this is a press release from the Department of National Defense that you've copied. It's like, that's not journalism. But it's in a newspaper, or it's in a news organization published by you know, something that's respected. So therefore, it is automatically understood as being journalism. When you're a freelancer, you're automatically not understood as being a journalist, unless you demonstrate that you are a journalist. And that is much harder, because the concept of what is journalism has become so perverted, frankly. What passes for, like standard journalism is often not it is often stenography. And so how do you set yourself apart? If you are a professional journalist, and you're freelance, you have to conduct yourself under the principles of journalism. Fairness and accuracy — really, really important. And I would say true balance. And then are you writing for publications that are considered journalistic publications? I think that is part of it. And I think that a lot of mainstream journalists have difficulty understanding these folks as journalists, because they're writing for alternative platforms. But if you look at the content that they're creating, it is accurate. It is fair, it is revealing things about society that journalists would reveal. I mean, there's not actually any question about whether or not this stuff is considered journalism, like even if there's a political slant to it. One of the things that I would love is that if we had better peer reviewed professional standards within the freelance world. I'm not sure if that's a position that a lot of freelancers hold. But I do think that there's worthwhile for you to be able to say, look, among my peers, I'm recognized as a professional. And that also creates a sense of community. And I think it's possible to do it without gatekeeping. And without maintaining the oppressive structures that do exist within mainstream journalism. Where it gets a lot more murky is when you look at the people that are using journalism to try and like foster things that are not true. People do get confused, because rather than looking at the content, they look at the platforms. Like, “well, it's self publishing. It's broadcasting. It's this sort of that” and it's like, yeah, but there's still a whole level of analysis that needs to happen within journalism, that we have, frankly, lost in a lot of mainstream platforms.


Winston Sih  19:26
Very, very well said, I have many friends who freelance. You freelance. So we talked about fair pay, we talked about salary. But the other thing that I don't necessarily give enough thought to, but I think it's something that more people need to think about his career progression. Freelance writing or being a freelance broadcaster doesn't mean that you should just be the bottom of the barrel. Do you have any thoughts on how freelance journalists can further their growth, while still being that entrepreneur outside of working for a traditional newsroom? 


Nora Loreto  20:01
I think it's really hard because so often our noses are in that grindstone, right. We're not seeing the broader picture of our own careers. And I'm not even sure how I define success anymore. Because 10 years ago, when I was starting out, really trying to be a serious freelance opinion writer. Really battling whether or not this is even journalism, I would have gauge success by certain bylines. And I'm sure that that's how most people see it. So then you get your first byline in, I don't know, something mainstream. And then you're like, “wow, yes, I did that”. Now. For me, the brakes got put on pretty quick on my career right after that happened. You know, since then, that was five years ago. Since then, you know, I had a column, the Washington Post, it stopped mostly out of my own interest, wanting to write more for Canada instead of for this global perspective. But also my editor left and then all of a sudden, I had to make a relationship with a new editor, and it hasn't worked. And I haven't pitched anything, and he hasn't really been in touch. So it's just like, it just died. Right? But once you can say that you've had paychecks from the Washington Post, how do you gauge a successful career? I mean, for me, it's about always being busy. It's about always trying to do interesting stuff. It's one thing to get those buy lines under your belt and feel happy when you see your name beside New York Times, or whatever it is that you get, but know that those are not career highlights at all. Like I don't look back and be like, “Oh, wow, it was so amazing. When I had, like my first Washington Post byline”. For me, I feel like my version of success has been like, I'm never bored, ever, I'm always eager to write the next piece, and I have a place to put my pieces, people know who I am when I reached out to them. That's a huge marker for me of not so much my success, but I'm at least going in the right direction. And just being really proud of the stuff that you produce, and to look back at something you've written a year ago and say, Wow, if I wrote this now, it would be better.


Winston Sih  21:52
You know, we have to change the way we think of the trajectory of our career and where we end up. And so if you were to pick one thing, to tell a young journalist today about what excites you about the future of freelance and the opportunity of telling local representative stories, what would that one thing be?


Nora Loreto  22:13
Oh, I think that this time, more than any, in the last 30 years is so ripe with possibility. When I was finishing j-school, your only option was to go to a legacy media place. And people would be viciously fighting their best friends over like the one spot at like Breakfast Television, for example. A little bit of entrepreneurialism, a little bit of enterprising, you can look at your hometown and say, “wow, there's nobody writing news here.” And I bet you could figure out a way to do it and have a very successful career as a journalist and build something, even from nothing. And I know that I am so much better off having the control of my life that I do. And just know that you have more opportunities today than there have been for many, many years. And it's not that that means that it's easy. It's not easy, but don't get down on it. Be excited to be creative. And I think that you can find your own path and that path will probably be amazing.


Winston Sih  23:08
Amazing. That's a fantastic place to wrap things up. Nora, as a freelancer myself, I learned so much from you. So thank you so much for joining us on Staying Alive.


Nora Loreto  23:18
Oh, thanks for the invitation and thank you for your work.


Winston Sih  23:21
Nora is the President with the Canadian Freelance Union. 


In the next episode, it's all about our communities. We spoke about news deserts on Staying Alive last season, but beyond geographics, there are also cultural communities that are underserved by local journalism in Canada. Which communities and how do we better support them? That's next on Staying Alive. I'm Winston Sih, until next time.