Staying Alive S02E01: Post-Pandemic Broadcasting with Adrian Harewood RUNNING TIME 25:10 SUMMARY KEYWORDS news, pandemic, journalists, newsroom, journalism, organizations, people, local, audiences, media, kinds, stories, happening, winston, adrian, broadcasting, canada, society, cbc, ensure SPEAKERS Adrian Harewood, Winston Sih Winston Sih 00:00 There's no doubt the broadcasting industry continues to change. The streaming industry has turned legacy broadcasting upside down. The way we gather the news has shifted because of technology, and social media has upheaved the way in which we consume daily headlines. Add on top of that the pandemic; in many ways, it accelerated the transition to be digital first, to be leaner and meaner in how we resource news gathering, and even change the way we think about storytelling. I'm broadcast journalist Winston Sih. I'm also a journalism instructor at the Creative School at Toronto Metropolitan University. And in partnership with J-Source, this is Staying Alive, a podcast discussing the future of local news in Canada and how we can build and support a sustainable and more inclusive broadcasting industry. As we settle into the new norm, post pandemic lockdowns, many of the workarounds journalists found themselves implementing during COVID have become the new way forward, but are they for the better, worse and where are the opportunities? Joining me now to discuss is Adrian Harewood. He's an associate professor at Carleton University in Ottawa, and was the former host and anchor at CBC Ottawa news. Adrian, thanks for joining me. Adrian Harewood 01:33 Thanks for having me, Winston. Winston Sih 01:34 So I think a good place to start to talk about is what has changed through the pandemic and how we gather broadcast news? Adrian Harewood 01:43 Well, I think one thing that's changed is that I think we realize how flexible we can be. When the pandemic kind of came upon us, I was-I was anchoring the six o'clock news at the time. And we started broadcasting from my home library, which is something that we really would not have considered doing before the pandemic, but we had no choice, we had to get a product on the air. So I think we've learned that we can adapt, and that we can kind of pivot quite quickly. It was remarkable to see how the team was able to come together quickly and use their-their various skills and apply them to come up with solutions in a very trying time. Certainly our conception of the newsroom has changed, you know, so many of us kind of grew up going to this physical place. That was the newsroom. And of course, that was disrupted during the pandemic, the newsroom became a little bit of a desert...I would say a bit of a sad place I-I always got a lot of energy from being in the-in the newsroom. I always loved being in close quarters with my colleagues, I love the kind of chats that you would have in the-in the kitchen, near the newsroom kitchen. I love those kinds of chance encounters with-with my colleagues. And of course, you know, we weren't able to benefit from that during much of the pandemic, you know, that's posing a bit of a challenge to us right now. When it comes to television news, our reporters are now videographers, they are editors. And they are also social media producers. So we see how versatile our reporters have become, and how skilled they are. We also know that with that, comes a lot of pressure. You know, I would say that this generation of journalists are probably the most skilled generation that we've ever seen. You know, these folks are adept at everything, you know, they are decathletes. So that versatility, I think has become part and parcel of modern day journalism. Winston Sih 03:54 So many organizations use the term multi-skilled journalists. And that's what the modern day journalists really is now. And also, I think, for journalists like you and me, we're actually happy to have the cameras out of our homes now. But we also see certain elements of this pandemic broadcasting world stick around like virtual interviews, utilizing tools like Zoom, to gather the news. And I suppose that isn't such a bad thing, because that allows journalists to be a bit more nimble and to go places where they traditionally wouldn't be able to go. Would you agree with that? Adrian Harewood 04:30 Oh, absolutely. The arrival of technologies like-like Zoom, have opened up all kinds of possibilities. And so we're able to tell different kinds of stories, we're able to get different kinds of information. I think, though, that there is a cost when so much of your work is done remotely. You know, there's certainly a benefit to being you know, in close proximity to your subject. There's a different kind of spirit I would say, I think something-something is lost. However, of course, the fact now that we are on a dime able to get an interview from Tacoma, Washington in an hour, we could do it very, very quickly. It also enables a lot more people to-to-to engage, to participate in-in broadcasting and creating news. So I think, you know, all those things are to the good, there's a kind of a democratization that's taking place, right. So that-that more and more people have access to and I think that's something, you know, that will benefit all of us. But again, they're always positives and negatives, you know, in any in any particular situation. Winston Sih 05:36 Absolutely. And as the saying goes, with more power comes more responsibility, and having more voices is a good thing. But of course, we need to be responsible with it. The other thing I want to mention, too, is a recent report that I saw in the Globe and Mail and it was in February that this report came out and it cited some potential changes by Canada's public broadcaster, the CBC, of course, their president and CEO Catherine Tate said that eventually the CBC may end its broadcasts on traditional TV and radio for a digital only strategy this to quote, "remain relevant". Now, Adrian, that's a bold move. That report was later clarified by Tate on their own website that the broadcaster will continue to provide Canadians with traditional radio, and television broadcasts and will delay its move to digital only services until adequate high speed internet is available to all Canadians. So, making sure the infrastructure is there. And the fact that-that is even being considered, I would say marks a paradigm shift, but it's not unheard of. So what is your reaction to hearing something like this that-that the CBC may shift its attention from traditional to digital? Is this something that needs to happen? And are we moving at the right pace Adrian Harewood 06:59 The world is going to continue turning, and so we have to kind of turn with it. So of course, you have to keep up with the technological changes that are happening in society. I teach the video journalism class, one of the video journalism classes, at Carleton University. And I think in the first or second class, I asked how many students watch the traditional six o'clock news and no one, no one raised their hands. So that kind of appointment television, people aren't sitting down and watching television in the way in which we might have 15 or 20 years ago. They're-they're getting their news in-in various ways. So of course, any organization that wants to remain relevant to the new generation will have to respond to those changes. But at the same time, you know, I do worry about the pace of change, I do worry about audiences that will be left behind. The CBC is an organization that is there to reflect the entire society back to itself. It's there to provide a service for Canadians from coast to coast to coast. And all Canadians deserve to have access to the service. So that always has to be front and center when making these kinds of monumental decisions. I also saw while I was in the newsroom, the effect that this move to the digital kind of realm was having on things like the six o'clock news, you know, we didn't have as many cameras available, you know, to tell the stories we wanted to tell on a daily basis, that was always a big challenge. And I think in many ways, we lost out on many stories, we weren't always serving the audience in ways that we should have. And that's because resources were kind of moved away. And that has a material effect on the discourse, that-that has an effect ultimately on public policy. Our primary goal always is to ensure that our audiences are informed that our audiences are educated, that they are enlightened by the work that we're doing, that they're edified by the work that they're doing. All those things! And so, if we are not present, if we are not there to tell the story, we're failing them. The technology is going to happen, even if we're resisting it, it's going to happen anyway. So we have to respond. But I think we also have to be prudent. And I think we have to be cognizant of what our core responsibilities are. Winston Sih 09:19 But that is the shared responsibility we have as journalists, no matter the organization that we do work for. And because we do live in this-this globalized world, this streaming world, where we aren't necessarily bound by what station we work for, when we're creating journalism, it can really live anywhere. And that speaks to the world and the time that we do live in. Adrian, I also want to speak a little bit about streaming. So in the entertainment industry, streaming is already something that we're familiar with as consumers but there's this model that has really taken off with Canadian journalism organizations, FAST, so free ad supported streaming, and CBC, speaking of keeping up with the times, has been experimenting with this format. And that comes in the product called CBC News Explorer. Now, other private broadcasters, they all have their own version of a 24/7, streaming news channel on various websites and apps. These services take what is essentially a television format and-and putting it on mobile devices and-and streaming services. And of course, throwing advertisements in there. So they're still making money. But is that the future of local journalism online? Is it redundant to just take a stream and put it online? Or is it a mix of that we'll need to have for the success of journalism in Canada? Adrian Harewood 10:51 You know that that question is almost above my paygrade. Winston Sih 10:54 But nobody knows the answer to this, right? Adrian Harewood 10:56 I don't know. Like, we really don't know. And I think we're trying to, we're spitballing a lot. We're trying to find out what works. We live in such a dynamic environment, it's really hard to know what the next move, the right move should be, you know. To be honest, a lot of the industry, we're scrambling to remain relevant. And we hear that word a lot, right? But we are scrambling to remain relevant. We are often terrified of bleeding audiences, of losing audiences. We are committed to trying to get the loyalty of this younger generation. And so we're trying all kinds of different things to see what works and what doesn't work. I really don't know Winston. You know, the fact is, a lot of people like I said, that young people, this generation, are not paying attention to-to-to appointment television. But what I would also say though, there are still people who do! There's a substantial number of people, some of them in my parents generation, some of them in my generation, and some of them even younger, who still do. So there's an audience out there for local news presented in the traditional way, there are still organizations, I would point for example to CTV, Ottawa. CTV Ottawa is still making money. And they've certainly made changes to the way in which they present the news. But their bread and butter is that six o'clock news and a substantial number of Ottawans still watch. We can't leave audiences behind in our quest to capture what we believe to be the zeitgeist. Winston Sih 12:28 Yeah. And we live in a massive country with populations that aren't the same from city to city, town to town. And different audiences will consume content in a different way,and Adrian, I think it's really interesting you bring up that there is still an audience that does want to watch the six o'clock news, this-this idea of appointment news, Pew Research just came out with some research on news media and it said that 64% of adults, often or sometimes still get news from television, with 33%, preferring television news by a large margin, over radio, or print publication. So there is still a place for television news. But it's how we find this mix, as you referred to earlier... Adrian Harewood 13:18 And Winston, there's a place for local news. People want to know what's going on in their neighborhoods. And we know that-that because of the demise of so many local publications, that people are really hungry for it. There are all kinds of news deserts, across this country, in small towns, and even in larger towns. You know, there are many different communities within this community that need to know what's happening in their area. And we need to figure out ways to serve them, we need to be investing a lot more in some people might call hyper local programming. There is a market for it. And I think that we have a lot of really talented, dynamic, innovative young journalists who want to do that kind of work. A number of my students when I asked them, you know what they want to do, I was really gobsmacked when a couple them said, "I want to do local news." Like, "I want to go back to my small town and I want to tell those stories that perhaps aren't being told right now." I think there's all kinds of opportunity to serve our audiences in all kinds of different ways. And really, we have to have the commitment, but we also have to-to invest some dollars in it, we have to invest some resources. And I think that there's some initiatives that are demonstrating that it can be profitable, you know, for-for those commercial enterprises. It can be profitable if you know how to serve those local audiences. Well, like if you know how to do it properly. Winston Sih 14:46 And it requires a level of collaboration between executives at media companies, the public, but also public policy to ensure that the funding is there, and I think what we'll touch on Bill C-10, C-11 and the discourse around that in a couple of minutes, but there really is a collaboration that's needed to ensure the success of that. And there almost feels like a push and a pull because we know local is important. But when we think about streaming, it is global, it's borderless, and then we're dealing with increased convergence, consolidation of newsrooms. I think about markets like Lethbridge, Alberta, for example, where you've got a TV station, Global Lethbridge, where decades old storied, and they've been moved into essentially a small boardroom in downtown Lethbridge, and they get maybe a-a 30 minute broadcast today. They simulcast Global Calgary for their six o'clock news. And so, the representation has just almost been decimated, when it comes to these newsrooms, and making sure that not just local representation, but diversity. Keeping that considered is so important for voices of all journalists, but more importantly, BIPOC journalists and making sure that they're represented in the communities that we cover. Adrian Harewood 16:08 It's one of my concerns about the post kind of COVID era of journalism. Because, again, our newsrooms are no longer as busy as they were, we're not gathering in the ways in which we used to. And so what's not happening, unfortunately, is a lot of mentoring, right? Mentoring is not occurring in the same way that it might have when we were again, in closer proximity. And unfortunately, I think a lot of those BIPOC journalists who are emerging right now, who are coming into the newsroom, would certainly benefit from having people who can support them, right, who can support them, who can show them the ropes, who can show them the way, who can help them to kind of navigate the spaces that traditionally have excluded them. Unfortunately, a lot of those BIPOC journalists will be the victims of a newsroom that is no longer as maybe responsive to their needs. I think, obviously, what it requires is, we have to be a lot more intentional, we have to be be a lot more strategic in the way in which we organize ourselves. We have to meet with folks both inside and outside of the organization to figure out what we can do to ensure that these institutions truly do represent us. And when I say us, I mean all of us so that everyone has a seat at the table. Winston Sih 17:27 Yeah, I've spent some time looking at ethnic media within the Greater Toronto Area, for example, and you look at Chinese newspapers, often, the news that's been covered isn't the most locally representative, because often it is covering the news that's happening in Taiwan or in Hong Kong. And it's often because they aren't resourced well enough to cover the stories that are happening in their own backyard properly. And that speaks to the problem of just not having enough resourcing. The idea and the intent is there, but we aren't able to properly execute and properly resource the journalists of today and tomorrow that will need to serve these communities, which is a whole challenge in itself. Adrian Harewood 18:13 You know, one thing that we can do, and I think one of the positive things to come out of the pandemic in the journalism world. And it's that word collaboration, isn't it? Right, like I think that there are all kinds of really exciting initiatives that are being taken by organizations that recognize the need to work with their colleagues in other organizations, you know. There are a lot more collaborative efforts taking place when it-when it comes to gathering news, we're seeing now that many organizations are marshaling their resources, marshalling their assets, and working together. And the same model can be used in all of the various different spaces in this society. Right, that-that I think through more collaborative efforts between media companies, media organizations, we can do a better job of serving the society. The fact that now, that is a possibility that we know that these can-these things can be done, that we don't have to kind of stay in our-our silos, we can compete with our fellow organizations, but we can also work together. And we can also figure out ways to kind of leverage our assets. We can leverage our strengths in order to better tell the stories of the society. Winston Sih 19:21 Yeah. And there's always been a love hate relationship between public policy and media makers to prop up and support all of these different aspects and themes that we've spoken about. And in the last couple years, we had Bill C 10, which was very heavily focused on the entertainment industry, and Canadian content there. But Bill C-11, is something that we're talking a lot about now. The focus on local news and the social networks like Facebook and Google and the distribution of local journalism and how the money should route and of course this has a common goal to help prop up local journalism, but of course there are critics that say this isn't the way forward. Are public policies like these enough to support local journalism in Canada? Are we having the right discussions to ensure the success of our newsrooms and communities large and small? It's not as black and white as people think it should be... Adrian Harewood 20:22 Yeah, well, news is a public good, right? These stories that we're telling, they're not just stories, it's about public health, we understand after going through this pandemic, you know, how vital you know, all these various platforms are to keeping the society healthy, right, and healthy in terms of the kind of conversations that we're having, public discourse, healthy in terms of the kinds of policies that we're coming up with, in order to solve our problems, healthy in terms of just being able to survive things like a global pandemic, like what do you do? You know, news, it requires money! These things don't happen by spontaneous generation. There has to be an investment and-and there has to be a commitment and I think that governments have a role to play, right, in investing in news making, right, and news gathering. But this-this is a public good and we know that when small towns, large towns, when they lose their-their journalists and reporters, it has an effect on the health and welfare of people in the society. Like when these institutions are not held to account when these powerful people powerful figures, powerful organizations are not held to account for their malfeasance! Or they're not held to account for, you know, their inaction, right, there's a price to be paid on the part of the society. So, we have to have a kind of a larger conversation about what media is there for. What-why-why do we need it? You know, how committed are we to having a very kind of vibrant civil society? How committed are we to ensuring that people have the information they need to make the best decisions for their families? For their communities? You know, for the country? I would argue that, again, government has a role to play. But I don't think the government investment is the only way forward. I think that there are all kinds of other media organizations that are showing that other ways are possible. For example, I think of a publication like The Narwhal. People are really supporting the kind of environmental focused journalism that The Narwhal is providing. And, you know, The Narwhal didn't exist, you know, 10 years ago. It's here now, and clearly, there's a market. And they're doing some really, really, you know, exciting work. And that's a private initiative. Right, that wasn't an initiative by government. So I think that in order to have the kind of media menu in this country that we deserve, we deserve a kind of a mixed approach there. I don't think there's just one way of dealing with this problem. I do think that government has a role. But I do think that the private sphere absolutely has a role. I'm excited at the fact that there are a lot of people, a lot of young people who are engaged in creating startups, you know, which suggests that there are these untapped markets, that demonstrates that, in spite of the challenges, in spite of sometimes lack of resources, in spite of the lack of money, there are possibilities. There are ways of creating, you know, new ways to tell the stories that need to be told. Winston Sih 23:25 And it's so great to see the many different models of doing journalism today that stretches far past television or radio print, I think of email newsletters, these local collectives that bring together journalists in a very innovative manner. These are the models that are going to resonate with the consumers of today. And I think that is where we can see a lot of hope and opportunity, that innovation, thinking of things differently. And like you said, collaboration between all of the key stakeholders, from consumers, to producers, editors, and public policymakers so that we are propping up the journalism industry in Canada. And Adrian, I think that's a pretty good place to end things today. Thanks so much for joining us with your insights! Adrian Harewood 24:18 Winston, thanks so much for having me. Winston Sih 24:21 Adrian Harewood is an associate professor at Carleton University in Ottawa. In the next episode, we talk about growing a journalist’s presence in Canada as a freelancer. It’s the reality of how many, like myself, work in the industry today. But how do we sustain ourselves while providing the important local information our communities deserve and stay competitive in today’s markets. We’ll explore that on Staying Alive next. I'm Winston Sih. Thanks for joining us.