Adrian Ma  0:09  
Hello there and welcome to another episode of working media. This is the podcast where Professional Journalists share advice, insight and lessons they've learned over the years with aspiring reporters, journalism students, or anyone interested in working in the news media industry. This podcast is produced in partnership with J source, the English language portal of the Canadian journalism project. I'm your host, Adrian Ma. Today we have a special episode that was recorded in Hong Kong. This past May, I had the immense privilege of attending and participating in the N three conference, which is one of the biggest, most innovative journalism get togethers in Asia. It's organized by the Asia chapter of the Asian American Journal Association. So big time respect to them for having me and putting on a seriously amazing and inspiring conference. I learned so much and really came away with renewed energy, seeing all the great reporting work being done in newsrooms across Asia Pacific. It was also a wonderful experience because they had invited a group of journalism students from Ryerson University, where I'm based to attend and the Aaj, the entry organizers. They were just so incredibly welcoming and encouraging, and I really can't thank them enough. Can't wait for next year. My next guest was a major figure at the conference in Hong Kong, as she is the former president of the Asia Asia chapter, and this has had a stellar award winning career as a broadcast journalist. Her name is Angie Lau. She was born in Hong Kong, but grew up in Canada, where she discovered a passion for reporting and storytelling. This passion brought her to the Ryerson School of Journalism. After graduating, she cut her teeth in bureaus across North America for working her way to becoming a lead anchor for Bloomberg TV, Asia. But her career has taken her in so many different directions into entrepreneurship, leadership roles and public speaking. When I spoke to her in May, she had recently started a new chapter of her life, leaving Bloomberg TV to become an advisor with the LEA caching Foundation, a major philanthropic organization founded by Hong Kong based business icon v cashing. Without further ado, this is Angie Lau on working media. Okay, I am sitting here with Angie Lau and we are in the foreign correspondents club in Hong Kong. I've had the privilege of coming here as a guest over the years. And every time I come, I am just so thrilled. It's a really beautiful, unique place. You kind of feel like you're you're back in the 1940s you know, like a war correspondence. So I want to thank you for inviting me here today.

Angie Lau  2:36  
Oh, my gosh, we're so happy to have you. Thank you.

Adrian Ma  2:38  
So you can actually tell me a little bit about this place and what it means to you because I know that you've got some pretty important connections to this particular place.

Angie Lau  2:48  
So when I first moved to Hong Kong, I realized a dream when I had when I was when I realized that I wanted to be a journalist. So when I arrived on the shores of Hong Kong, I was a foreign correspondent. And part of that arrival was to definitely make a beeline to the foreign correspondents club of Hong Kong. It's one of the most prestigious well known famed press clubs in the world, especially during the 1997 handover, at least for me, and everybody who's anybody, news makers, news leaders, city leaders, just anybody who was anybody kind of all met up at the bar upstairs, we're downstairs at birds. But the bar was a buzz and you could rub shoulders with people. And certainly the heritage of the club is older than 1997. But during the war years during the Vietnam War, all of that

foreign correspondence held an integral role to society, and to history, and to be able to provide a refuge for not only maybe battered souls and bodies, but also resting place for minds and rejuvenating through rubbing shoulders with other intellectuals and other foreign correspondents, and other like minded kindred spirits. So that's what the foreign correspondent club means to me. And it has been exactly that a refuge in the storm a little bit. Sometimes when it comes to news gathering, and doing the art in the profession of journalism. He kind of breaks your heart sometimes kind of beats you up a little bit. And then you just come here and and you rub shoulders with people that you so respect, whom you admire, who are your heroes, and I contributed in a way that I thought it was important. So I served on the board here for a couple of years as well to try to keep that momentum going for the next generation

Adrian Ma  5:02  
Foreign correspondants that come here for the first time, it must be an eye opening experience. One thing I want to discuss, though, that you said, you know, coming back to the shores of Hong Kong, which is interesting because you were born on the shores is that is that right?

Angie Lau  5:16  
So I was born here, and my parents moved us all to Canada when I was two years old. So really had no connection other than this was where I spent my formative years, I guess, between zero and two. But for me and my identity, it was as a minority it was as an immigrant, it was as Canadian. And so that was what formed my personality, my sensibilities. It's probably what inspired this insatiable desire to know more, because I didn't know nor did my parents and we informed each other, I'd find out things and I tell them, they'd find out things and they tell me And together, we were all explorers on these new shores of Canada. But that truly is my home and is my heart. I came back to Hong Kong maybe seven years ago. And I thought, Oh, well, I was born here. I'm Chinese, I speak some of the language. I mean, my Kanto is pretty good. But not,

Obviously, Imean, I speak for more than three sentences, and my cover is blown. But I very arrogantly presumed that I'd be able to deal. And that couldn't be further from the truth. And I think once I stripped away that arrogance, of presuming that I could fit in and warring against the question as to why I didn't fit in, I was okay with it. I was okay with it. And it continues to be a journey of discovery, it continues to be a wonderful adventure.

Adrian Ma  6:55  
Asian Canadian women, Asian American women weren't probably particularly encouraged to go into journalism, a field where you're asking questions, you're you're being nosy. Tell me, tell me about what that what that was like for you. And when this became a path for you? Yeah,

Angie Lau  7:12  
I had the privilege of having two parents who weren't traditional. I mean, if they were, they probably stay in Hong Kong, and just deal with the system. And they didn't, they decided that another community, another society, another country, would be able to provide the opportunities, they wanted to provide their two little girls. And I talked about this in my TEDx speech, which is, I'm the firstborn daughter of a firstborn son of a firstborn son of a firstborn son. There was a lot of pressure on my parents, and especially my father. Nothing that I knew at the time was two years old. Can you imagine? I'm a parent now, of a 16 month old? Are you kidding me? You want to move to Canada with a two year old and a five month old? I can't even fathom that. And now, I realize just how courageous and how brave that was to provide that opportunity for us. Because Was it easy? It was not easy? Hell no, it was not easy. I know that now. But they did that. Because they thought differently. And I'm not a doctor, I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a PhD, or a Master's of this, and that and all the rest. I'm just a plain old journalist. And my parents, were okay with that. Because I think they learned early on not to get in the ways of their daughters,

because that's how they raised us. Very lucky about that. They gave us a lot of opportunities, learned piano, right, killed it in the spelling bee, got all my A's got upset at my mom, when she said, Oh, you didn't get perfect because you didn't get the bonus points. And realizing that I could settle for somebody else's standards, or I could keep pushing myself. And that's what she taught me. They gave us the gift of self esteem. They gave us the gift of empowerment. And they gave us the decision of choice. I know that's not something that a lot of traditional Chinese families value. But it's something our parents consciously gave us. And I was 16 years old. I loved every subject. Of course, you know, book smarts is not the same as passion smarts. So I got all the grades that I needed to get. But that didn't inform me as to what I was super good at. And I wanted to know what I could be super good at And I realized that I didn't have to be pigeonholed when I got advice from my English teacher at 16. I didn't know what to do what to study for college. And he just said, Do you ever consider being a journalist, loved it, loved it the moment he uttered those words, it was as if a veil had been lifted. Because I could do everything. Right. Like, if you are really interested in science, well, you could you know, folk that could be your beat. Or if you wanted to write about food that could be your beat. Or if you wanted to discover whatever it was that you wanted to do. For me, it was very visual storyteller. I was a visual person. I also loved communicating the oral tradition, the conversations and asking nosy questions, I got to do that. So I was very lucky to be able to do what I found out that I loved early on. My parents were very proud of me from from day one. I can't ever remember a time when they said, Are you sure you want to do journalism? There was never even never even uttered from their lips. They just wanted me to go for it. They encouraged it.

Adrian Ma  11:17  
And so with that choice they empowered you to make you chose to go to Ryerson School of Journalism, which is where we are both graduates of and that's that's how we connected. So tell me about that experience and what it was like to to start school there. You talk very fondly about it. I've noticed.

Angie Lau  11:35  
Oh, my God, I was so intense, I probably a little too intense. I mean, at the time, there were 2000 applicants for 110 or 30 spots. I forget what the ratio was. But it was not a good ratio in my favor. But oh, man, I just, I, I just wanted it so badly. And I work so hard at it, and I did whatever it took. And then when I got there, I realized this was not a gift to be squandered. This is something that I worked for. And so I think it was that appreciation of wanting something so badly. And when you're getting it, also appreciating the opportunity, so it was probably a little too intense. And I made beautiful friends who calmed me down. And then I just, I was just an environment where passions were supported by professors who are professionals and who could provide insights into the industry. And I got to do a lot of hands on stuff.

Unknown Speaker  12:40  
From Toronto,I got an internship with BC TV. Now, I think it's CTV, Vancouver. But BC TV gave me an internship, that internship turned into a job. That job turned into a layoff a year after that layoff within six weeks very thankfully turned into a job offer a job offer that was rescinded because of a hiring freeze. totally devastated. But then six weeks after that got two job offers in Calgary. And I took the one with the CBC worked there for a year or so as a general assignment reporter. My official title when I first came on, was as the community reporter, wink wink, you guys all know what that means. And I very quickly turned that into lead stories for the news cast. And that moniker went away. I just became a general assignment reporter. And I did some stories, I even got to do some stories for the National. I got accepted into the investigative program, where they took like maybe a handful of up and coming reporters from across the country. And they would do investigative bootcamp with those reporters. And I got accepted. And I walked into my news director's office, I was so excited and just needed him to sign some papers. And he said, No. And I said, but this is good for our newsroom. I can learn some really incredible skills that can be useful here. And I can come back and I can help, whatever it is, but but I, I can do this. It's not going to hurt. It's can only help and you'll you'll be helping us and you'll be obviously growing, growing young talent. He said, You know what, Angie, you're a little too impatient. He said, You haven't been here long enough. I've other senior reporters here who probably deserve that spot more than you. And I was thinking, yeah, but then why didn't they get accepted? Why didn't they apply? I don't know if they applied or not. But they I was the one who got accepted. He said, Angie, I can't do that. You haven't spent enough time here. And I said, Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And then Within a couple of months, I got a job at CFTO. Because when somebody tells you that when you're trying to grow, you got to go. And I went to CFTO in Toronto. And oh my gosh, my mom was so excited. She recorded every broadcast. And I would call her up and go, Mom, did you see that story? Oh, my gosh, I got the exclusive and I let the and I did a live head and I you know, all of the these things that as a professional you're so excited about? And my mom would say, why did you wear black and you always wear black? You know, I did, you should really wear color more. So there was a little bit of a disconnect.

Adrian Ma  15:43  
But love the Asian parents always with the constructive criticism.

Angie Lau  15:48  
Yeah, yeah. But you know what? I heard her. So I, I was okay. All right. Thanks, well. And then from there, I got a agent, because I realized that in order to continue to grow in this profession, I wanted to be in the US. So I got an agent, I got a couple of offers, ended up in Cleveland, worked for the executive producer of world news tonight with Peter Jennings, our Canadian hero. That for me was, I arrived, I was hired by a news director who produced Peter Jennings, I got to meet Peter Jennings, by the way, and that was when he came through town for

Adrian Ma  16:37  
Well, these days. They say sometimes meeting your heroes can be a letdown. But what was it like meeting Peter Jennings?

Angie Lau  16:44  
Oh, man. It was amazing. And I think he realized that I was a super fan. But I also was very conscious of the journalism aspect of it. So I think he respected that. But then I saw him bark at his team. And I went, Whoa, yeah, there's some pretty high standards here. And there was, they were afraid of them. But man, this man knew his stuff. So from Cleveland, I got a job offer to go to Chicago, from Bloomberg. And then three years after Chicago, I got the opportunity to come to Hong Kong. And that was seven years ago. That that's my entire journalism career in a nutshell.

Adrian Ma  17:37  
So at some point, every foreign correspondent that I've talked to, that have stayed anywhere for a number of years, there's always been some moment where that decision kind of came, I think, where what makes you decide to stay in a place that you initially come to work for? Because I think a lot of foreign correspondents end up maybe enjoying the moving around every every every so often. But when you arrived back in Hong Kong, what was it that made you stay?

Angie Lau  18:05  
No, I didn't think I was gonna stay at all. But that's the thing about Hong Kong, it's like the mafia, once you're in, you can never know. I mean, there's count There are countless stories of people who, yeah, I was only going to suppose to be here for a year. And then 20 years later, they're still here. I don't know if that's going to be me, my husband, and I thought at the time, it was really going to be two to three year sojourn. And at some point, we'll we'll figure it out. And we'll go on to the next adventure. And then 16 months ago, I had my little boy, and then everything changed. I still don't know if we're gonna be here forever. But I'm no longer a foreign correspondent, no longer in journalism. I've made that transition. And now it's trying to figure out the journalism part, the being present part, the outward facing part of me, and my role. People still asked me to speak, they still ask me to do things in a very public way. And I realized, wow, I'm not just the role that I had. In fact, I'm just me. And people still want to hear from me, regardless of whatever professional role that I currently hold at the time. So that has been an incredible gift that this city in this community, in fact, this entire region has given me.

Adrian Ma  19:38  
Let's talk about that transition, actually, because for people that don't know, you've moved from being a top anchor at Bloomberg to a couple of different projects, including joining the Li Ka Shing Foundation as a as an advisor, also getting into venture capitalism. What was the motivation behind that transition?

Angie Lau  19:56  
I needed to grow. I needed to spread my wings and Just like that conversation that I had with that news director so many years ago in Calgary, when he told me that he would not sign that piece of paper that allowed me to continue to grow. I realized that for the entire industry right now we are in a collective transition. And I want it to be part of the future, and so grateful for the foundation that traditional media outlets have given me. But recognizing that if I'm going to be part of the future, I can't stay in the past. Was it easy? No, I think for any new parent, including yourself, Adrian, starting new things, shedding old skins, while your children are still very small, that is actually not a smart thing to do, in terms of self preservation, but I made that risk. And I took that risk, because I knew that whatever happens over this year, it is settling into a new foundation, not settling, but growing new skills, planting new seeds to see where those trees will take me. And that that is that is the risk that I took. And that is the change that I'm embracing, because I so lucky that Bloomberg gave me the gift of my own show. And pushing me up to my own personal Everest, I got there, it was a singular focus for 20 years singular focus. And I looked around, and I was like, I'm not ready to hang out here. I wanted to know what was next. Because I have a little boy, whose future I want to be a part of. That's why I made the transition. Well, and I find

Adrian Ma  21:53  
it interesting that you felt that to be part of that future or to have more influence on it, you left, what would be called a traditional kind of news media organization. Is that something that you're feeling that news media organizations, as we know them now, or maybe a bit mired in the past, and that these other opportunities to advance into the future that you are just much more compelled by

Angie Lau  22:16  
That traditional TV platform is just going away. And for the traditional media outlets that don't recognize that they're going to be the dinosaurs? I think there is a real sea change here. It's happening right now. And I didn't want to be in a role that was attached to that old world. I'm just trying to be smart about it, by removing myself from it, and seeing what is in this world of ours, where I could align myself with agitate for change, find kindred spirits, and work together to remain relevant to remain influential and impactful. You know, our society needs it right now. I mean, if you haven't noticed, things aren't working. And I'm not just talking about journalism. But this is a year of change. And you can be afraid of it. Or you can embrace it. Am I scared? Hell, yeah. I'm scared. Have I fallen on my face? Absolutely. But I've learned more in my most challenging days than I have in the past year or so. In my old job. So that to me, is already a gift. It's already a gift.

Adrian Ma  23:35  
Okay, Angie, a big part of this podcasts. Because it's aimed at aspiring journalist, young journalists just getting started in the career, I ask this question to every single guest that comes on the show. What do you know, now that you wish you knew when you first started your career,

Angie Lau  23:49  
You probably heard some variations of the theme, which is I wish I didn't take it all so seriously. But what it really boils down to is you don't have to try that hard. The magic for me in this industry, and I think in any industry was the realization that you're good enough that you have to step out of your own way, that the truth in your magic is when you're authentic. I didn't really get that lesson until mid career when I started peeling away the layers of perception and role and expectation and thinking I had to be a certain way, sound a certain way, carry myself a certain way, dress a certain way. Talk a certain way. All of those things that you think if you just did that really well, you're set. That's not true. The true work and it continues to be work. The true work is peeling away those layers and exposing yourself and being comfortable, bro It is a brave thing, by the way, to be vulnerable, but to be comfortable in that authenticity, the moment that I caught that, as an anchor as an on air person, it was magic. It was magic. I sustained five hours of programming three by myself two with a co anchor every day. people not only watched, they came to watch, they loved to watch, they returned, we grew our audience. It was incredible time. And I realized that it wasn't a voice I developed, it was a voice that I uncovered. That's what I realized. So the lesson I wish I learned early on, is that it is about being authentic. It is about not necessarily learning skills, to mask, but skills to help you uncover your true talent. That's what I wish I learned. I'm glad I learned it. At some point. Some people come to it really, really early. They're so wise. I came to it a tiny bit late based on frustration in my mid career, I felt like something was holding me back. And I didn't know what it was. It wasn't because I wasn't breaking stories, or wasn't a great writer, or did killer live hits or killer stand ups isn't any of those things, because I had tapes upon tape that showed that I was good at that stuff. Something else. And that's something else was authenticity. When I figured it out, it was magic.

Adrian Ma  26:36  
It's a really interesting idea. In in part, because for a long time, you know, journalism, the way it was taught the way it was expressed the way it was thought of the spirit of journalism was this idea, you know, neutrality, balance, fairness, not letting your your personalities be part of the equation fitting into newsrooms, newsrooms culture, if you thought back to when you were, let's say, 21, 22, Angie Lau, those are things that you would have literally done differently, knowing that this authentic self that you have uncovered, and then gain strength from is something that you knew would be important to come.

Angie Lau  27:13  
I don't think I would have done anything different I need, I needed to learn my lessons when I learned them. So so I don't regret anything that I've done or any late lesson or even being blind to it. Because I focused on what I needed to work on. In terms of practicality, I would say, surround yourself by people who inspire and empower you and encourage you for you. And for those wise people whom you see as your professors or friends or colleagues or mentors. Those mentors see something in you for a reason. Okay. And some mentors come and go, but they will always inform. There's a connection that you make at that moment. Listen, listen, I was always open to criticism, constructive criticism, but criticism nonetheless. But I realized as well, I was very hard on myself. I always aimed for perfection, thinking that perfection is a standard, I will tell you right now perfection, is a handcuff perfection is a chain, it is a trap. So practically, the one thing I would have done at 21 is to be less hard on myself, to listen more to be self critical more to do, but to also reflect. I think I just pursued, because you know, you're impatient. I'm still impatient. But now I'm a little wiser. Because you can accomplish without being reflective. And when you're young, you think if you just achieve achieve, achieve, achieve achieve achieve, it's good enough. Well, yeah, it's good enough for everybody else, because you've met their standards. But what about you? So what about you? So stop for a moment and figure out the true impetus of what you want to achieve why you want to achieve that, and how you're going to go about it as as you that's where sometimes young people get into trouble, right? pursue for the sake of the pursuit. And then you burn your friends. You yell at your classmates, you yell at, you know your classmate who forgot to press record on that interview that you did. You burn a few bridges. You know what I mean? I'm sure that there are so many various examples of what happens when we pursue pursue pursue what was my cost? I told my friends that I couldn't go to their wedding. I told one of my best friends that I cannot be a bridesmaid for her. Because I did not know if my vacation would be pulled back because I had to stay for the big story. That was my error. I have to, I have to think about that. I have to think about that. You know, I turned down family reunions, I really did shit like that. I know we all do in the blind pursuit of whatever somebody else's agenda or expectation is of us, including when I first got this job as lead anchor, with my own show with my own name on it. I never said no to anybody. What I ended up saying no to was myself, my health, my relationships. My time, I'd wake up at 330 in the morning, I won't be back home until 10. Because I had agreed to moderate dinner meetings, meeting with sources meeting with CEOs. I said yes to all of that stuff. I said no, to me, I was exhausted. I was shirty with my spouse, I didn't see my spouse, I got sick a lot. And I thought, okay, I just need to work out more,

I need to eat better. You know, I need to do all of those things. But you know, those personal relationships, it's not pretty. But when I realized I didn't have to do any of those things. All I needed to do was be me. It was magical. You are the foundation and the anchor of your own life. If you're not, if you're not imbalanced, nothing else in your universe is so take responsibility and that, and yeah, I wish I was self reflective a little bit more. But I learned I learned my lessons. Because sometimes lessons aren't the ones that they teach you in the classroom at all. And the one thing that I am proud of myself about is that I'm a voracious student, and I remain a voracious student. I know that I don't know. But I know that I love to learn. And that was what informed me of the realization that I need to keep moving on, because I want to keep learning. And that's the one thing that I hope our audience today takes away from this is that the world is just going to be so different. It really is. It's not the same. And in school, we learn so many skills of a world that won't be in five to 10 years. That's the truth. What you learn in school are actually not taught by your professors, no offense, Adrian, or the books, or the classrooms. It's how you are in that learning process. It's how you are in those relationships of learning. It's how you are as a student, what you're learning is actually the skills to learn to keep on learning. That's what you're truly getting out of this education. So if you recognize that you'll be the best student in the world, because it will be a never ending journey, and it will never stop.

Adrian Ma  32:53  
Oh, Angie, I wish you the best of luck as you continue your journey. Thank you so much for having us in Hong Kong for being with us. And for sitting down with me today. This is a great conversation. Thank you so much.

Angie Lau  33:03  
Yeah, thanks, Adrian.

Adrian Ma  33:06  
Once again, that was our conversation with Angie Lau recorded in Hong Kong earlier this year. Thanks again to Angie, the AAJA and our partner J-ource. Our executive producer is Hayley Watson. And a special shout out to Nicole de Donato who normally does her editing. I hope she's having an amazing time in Los Angeles at her workshop. Until next time, thanks for joining us.